Herbert W Armstrong

   But do you think that it's Christian to excommunicate somebody? You think that's a Christian thing to do, to tell a man he can't come to church? To say you've been disfellowshipped? We're not gonna eat with you. We're not going to let you come to church. And if you insist on trying to come to church anyway, we'll just instruct the deacons to stop you at the door and not let you come in. If you get vigorous about it, we'll just call the police and tell them you're disturbing the peace because we have the right to fellowship and privacy and peace and quiet. That's true. It doesn't sound like a Christian thing to do.

   A lot of times when you talk to people they'll say, "I don't think, I don't feel, I don't believe." If you notice one word stands out on all those statements: "I don't think. I don't feel, I don't believe." But to me that's neither here nor there. To me that doesn't amount to a hill of beans. You know, what does the Bible say about it? That's all we ought to be concerned about. What does the Bible teach about?

   Now some churches carry this to an extreme. If you happen to see the movie "Becket" - if you didn't, I hope we can get it and show it for the church here because it's quite a history film about the rebellion of the Church of England from the Catholic Church and how they launched out to try to start a separate Christian church. In this particular movie, Thomas Becket was excommunicated. And they read from the focus that the right of excommunication. I tried to find the one I was going to bring it to read it to you here because it goes overboard. It carries things to an extreme. The priest, when he read that, did think I in no way ever do. And yet some people not knowing that would have you believe when you're disfellowshipped, you're sentenced to the ever burning hell fire. Some people would have you believe that the minister who disfellowships you, who excommunicates you is actually turning you over to Satan, confining you to hellfire.

   Now, is that true? Is that possible? Well, again, what does the Bible say about it? You know, we don't go by feeling or how you think, what you believe, what does the Bible teach you about it. Now you're gonna find as we go through scripture. That the ultimate power the church has in your life is reached when you're disfellowshipped. That's all. The church doesn't have the power to confiscate your property, which it did back in the Middle Ages. The church doesn't have the power to ruin your business. It doesn't have the power to tear apart a family. It doesn't have power to lash people with stripes. It doesn't have the power to sentence someone to prison or death. That's going overboard. That's beyond scripture limitation. But does the church have the power to excommunicate and disfellowship? And if it does, what does that mean? What has happened to you when you've been excommunicated or disfellowshipped?

   One of the examples in the Bible where this took place, and then you see the end result of it. II Corinthians chapter 2.

   II Corinthians chapter 2 (II Corinthians 2:1-6). "But I determined this with myself, that I would not come again to you Corinthian Christians in heaviness. Or if I make you Corinthian Christians sorry, then who is this that makes me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me? So he said, I wrote the same to you, lest when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice. Having confidence in you all that my joy is the joy of you all. For out of much affliction and anguish of heart, I wrote unto you with many tears."

   So in the first letter, Paul wrote to the Corinthians. It was a very, very trying, heart-rending, difficult thing that he had to do. So he says out of much affliction. Out of much anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears. "Not that you should be grieved, but that you might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you."

   So what he’s speaking of here. In some cases government exercising authority and discipline and punishment might seem to be grievous. It might seem to hurt people. It might not make sense in reasoning. And yet does human nature ever say that correction is love, that correction is good for you, that correction is beneficial? But doesn’t human nature rather say you never should correct. You ought always flatter. Never correct the brother, he might not like you after that. Never correct someone, they might not like you after that. And yet in most cases just the opposite is true. If you had children that you had the discipline, you know how much they respond to you towards even more afterwards. So Paul is showing here that he didn't write that that they should be grieved. But that they might know the love that he had more abundance and more abundantly to them as the church.

   Now, why would it prove his love more abundantly to them as the church by what he had to write in the first epistle? Oh, we'll see, "but if any have caused grief, he has not grieved me, but in part." So apparently some people, by the way they took what he wrote in the first letter, caused grief. The main grief they caused wasn't on the apostle Paul, although it did affect him to a degree. "If any have caused grief, he has not grieved me, but in part, but I might not overcharge you all. Sufficient to such a man is this punishment."

   Now some Bible show you the translation, this national Bible has in the margin, "censure." So it's obvious there was a man that Paul had to write about in the first letter. And now he's telling the Corinthians in this second letter. "Sufficient to such a man is this discipline, this punishment, this censure. Which was inflicted of many." I know not everybody went along with Paul's censure of this man. Not everyone obeyed Paul's discipline or punishment of this man, and they didn't do it because of the same reason we might today, we say, well, I don't think, I don't feel, it seems harsh to me. It seems the wrong thing to me. It looks to me like. You know, if I went by human emotion, if I went by human feeling. I'd say, well, it just doesn't seem to be the right thing to do. Just take someone who's way off out in West Texas, and there's no other church they can go to and you say you can't come here. You want to keep the Sabbath, you want to obey God, you want to keep God's laws, then you've got to live by every word of God. So you can't come here. Well, you know, where are they going to go? Why shouldn't they be allowed to come? What's it going to do to them? Well, we'll read and find out.

   But it's obvious here that some of the Corinthians also wanted to use human reasoning. They wanted to say, "I don't think, I don't feel. It seems to me. I believe if we can just show more love to this brother who's gone astray, we can get him to straighten out better by showing more love to him than we can by withdrawing ourselves from him." So they reasoned. Well, Paul said that punishment was inflicted of many.

   All right, in verse 7 (II Corinthians 2:7), he says, "So that contrary wise, you ought rather to forgive him and comfort him." So once the man learned his lesson that he was to learn by this censure, by this disfellowship, by this excommunication, once the man learned what he had to learn by it, then contrary wise, you ought rather to forgive him. And you ought rather to comfort him. "Lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with over much sorrow."

   But the person should have deep sorrow. The person should be stricken with sorrow. It should cause him sorrow when he can't come to church, when he can't fellowship with the brethren, when he can't get in the association that he's been enjoying in the past. But once the person has learned his lesson, then contrary arise, we ought to forgive and comfort so there isn't over much sorrow.

   So Paul says, "Wherefore I beseech you, Corinthian church, you Corinthians Christians, that you would even prove more so your love for him now. For to this end also I did write that I might know the proof of you, whether you be obedient in all things," and he found out they weren't. He found out a lot of them were, but some of them weren't. Some of them would use their own human reasoning. They didn't care what the preacher said, they didn't care what the church said. They didn't care what was written. They were going to do what they were going to do period regardless. So they had hardheads, stubborn, independent, rebellious people back there also. So Paul said that was one of the reasons too that he wrote it in the letter, to know the proof of the Corinthians, whether they be obedient. "In all things, and he says, to whom you forgive anything, I also. But if I've forgiven anything to the person, I forgive you for your sake as the representative of Christ." Through the apostolic authority backed by Christ, I forgave it not just as a brother or a fellow member, "let Satan should get an advantage of it."

   Now let's just back up for a minute and stop and take a good look at excommunication. It 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica. They've got a very excellent brief article on excommunication. All right, in the first place, what does it mean? Excommunication. Well, a lot of people think it means closed communion is what they term it. That means only members of the church in good standing should take the Lord's supper, communion, whatever you want to call it, but that isn't really what excommunication refers to. It doesn't just have to do with communion. It's a compound word. The Latin ex means "out of," "away from." Communis, communis, C O M M U N I S means "common." In other words, away from the common, out of the common. Excommunication.

   All right. Is this a biblical teaching? Is this a Christian teaching? Well, let's read what he says here. "The judicial exclusion of offenders from the rights and privileges of the religious community to which they belong. The history of the practice of excommunication may be traced through 1, pagan analogies. 2, Hebrew custom. 3, primitive Christian practice. 4, medieval and monastic usage. 5, modern survivals in existing Christian churches."

   Now, of course, did the Old Testament nation of Israel, did God put into the scripture laws that he gleaned from pagans? Or did God's laws go back beyond these pagan practices? Well, he mentions among pagan analogies. Are the Greek exclusion of an offender from purification with holy water. This exclusion was enforced in the case of persons whose hands were defiled with bloodshed. Then there's the Roman parallel was the solemn pronouncement of a religious curse by priests. Intended to call down the divine wrath upon enemies and to devote them to destruction by powers human and divine. Even the druids claimed the dread power of excluding offenders from sacrifice. Primitive Semitic customs recognize that when persons are laid under a ban or a taboo. Restrictions are imposed on contact with them and that the breach of these involves supernatural dangers. Empire sinners are enemies of the community, and its God might be devoted to utter destruction.

   All right, what about the Hebrew custom which is older than Greek or Roman or any of those we read of. What about the Hebrew custom? In a theocracy, excommunication is necessarily both the civil and the religious penalty. The word used in the New Testament to describe an excommunicated person. Anathema for example, I Corinthians 16:22 Romans 9:3 or Galatians 1:8-9. Is the septu rendering of the Hebrew hero. So that Greek word anathema is actually derived from the Hebrew word and it's just the Greek form. The word means quote "set apart." And does not distinguished originally as far as the Hebrew language goes, between things set apart because devoted to God and things devoted to destruction.

   Well, he gives several examples out of scripture. Leviticus 27:16-34. Defines the law for dealing with devoted things. Then he gives many other scriptures. But let's come down to the primitive Christian practice. The use of excommunication as a form of Christian discipline is based on the precept of Christ and on apostolic practice. So they recognized without any question, this isn't some medieval uh radical, overly strict attitude of legalistic Christians. But it's based on the precepts of Jesus Christ Himself and it's based on apostolic practice. The general principles which govern the exclusion of members from a religious community may be gathered from New Testament writings.

   So there's no question it's biblical. There's no question that lesson is taught both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. But the people stopped to say, well, is it biblical? You know, as far as I'm concerned, that's what matters with me. Are we faithful to God's word? I don't care whether people like it. I don't care whether people think you're legalistic and overly strict and you know, unreasonable and hard on people. If it's biblical, then we're gonna do it. And if it isn't biblical, then we're not going to do it. So whether anybody likes it or not, neither here nor there. Is it biblical? Well, they admit the general principles that govern the exclusion of members from a religious community may be gathered from the New Testament writings. And we'll look at these.

   Matthew 18:15 and 17, "prescribes a threefold admonition, first privately, then in the presence of witnesses, then before the church. This is the greatest procedure as in the Jewish synagogue and makes exclusion a last resort. Nothing is said as to the nature and effects of excommunication. The tone of the passage when compared with the disciplinary methods of the synagogue indicates that its purpose was to introduce elements of reason and moral persuasion in place of turner methods. Its object is rather the protection of the church."

   You know that's why Paul said that he showed his love for those Corinthians by not allowing that man to stay in their fellowship. But do you think church people say, "Boy, we appreciate that expression of love. We appreciate that evidence and proof of love by keeping that person out of the fellowship of the church."

   Its object, right. "Its object is rather the protection of the church than the punishment of the sinner. The offender is only treated as the heathen and publican."

   And yet, you know, I myself heard that scripture. Read in a way that it doesn't really say, it doesn't really teach. What does Jesus say when he says. Treat them as the heathen man and a publican. Then he gives an example of I Corinthians 5, which we'll read. "Paul refers to a formal meeting of the Corinthian church at which the incestuous person is delivered on Satan for the destruction of the flesh."

   You know, can I do that as a minister? Do I have the power to turn you over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh? What does that mean if I do? What does that mean it's gonna happen to you if that's the case. "That the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." These are mysterious words implying number 1, a formal ecclesiastical censure. 2, a physical penalty. 3, the hope of a spiritual result. So that's the reason for it. The form of penalty which would meet these conditions is not explained. There is a reference in II Corinthians 2 to the case of discipline. Which we've read. The excommunication hadn't been final. The offender now had been received back.

   Well, does that mean once somebody is excommunicated they're out for good forever, that that's the end of them for good? "If it be not the same case as I Corinthians 5, it shows the Corinthian church exercising discipline independently of apostolic advice. Up to this point, there's no established formal practice. I Timothy 1:20, Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they might be taught not to blaspheme." Seems to refer to an excommunication, but it does not appear whether the apostle had acted as representing a church, nor is there anything to explain the exact consequences or limits of the deliverance of Satan. I Corinthians 16 and Galatians 1 and Romans 9 refer to the practice of regarding a person as anathema. Taking these passages as a whole, they seem to point to an exclusion from church fellowship rather than to a final cutting off from the hope of salvation.

   Now you know that very plainly. If you put all these passages together, it's just an exclusion from church fellowship rather than any final cutting off from the hope of salvation. But boy, if you heard that right of excommunication in that movie "Thomas Becket," they're consigned to the flames of hell and they're gonna be tortured with fire and brimstone and that is horrifying. It stood my hair on end when I heard that right of excommunication.

   "In the pastoral letters, there's already a formal and recognized method of procedure in cases of church. I Timothy 5:19-20 requires two or three witnesses in the case of an accusation against an elder, and then he is publicly reproved, but not before the church, as we'll see later, but before other elders. Titus 3:20 recognizes a factualous spirit as a reason for excommunication after two admonitions."

   I noticed the difference between Titus 3:20, "recognizes a factious spirit. Someone just causing factions, splits, sects. Opinions. A reason for excommunication after two admonitions. I Timothy 6, II John 5:10 and 3rd John. Diotrophy appears to have secured an excommunication by the action of the party and the church. It's clear from these illustrations that within the New Testament there is development from spontaneous towards strictly regulated methods. Also that the use of excommunication is chiefly for disciplinary and protective rather than punitive reasons. A process which is intended to produce penitence and ultimate restoration. Cannot at the same time contemplate handing the offender over to the eternal punishment."

   So if you go by an authority as reliable as the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica. The disfellowship of someone has nothing to do with confining them to hell to burn them up or burn them forever. It's a temporary corrective thing to the person to make them wake up as well as to protect the church.

   Now you take the word "disfellowship." Look at the word, "disfellowship." That means someone is outside of our fellowship in what way? You know what if I have a brother who's disfellowshipped? Does that mean I can't go visit him at Thanksgiving and have a Thanksgiving dinner together with a brother that is in excommunication family or is it church? You know, does that mean if the brother's disfellowshipped, I couldn't go down and buy auto parts from him or go down and have him do my printing or, you know, does that mean I couldn't have business dealings with him? Just what does disfellowship have to do with? Well, we'll take a look at the word fellowship and find out what it has to do with.

   OK, now first let's look at two reasons for disfellowship. Two reasons. II Thessalonians chapter 3. And verse 14. II Thessalonians 3. Now this is one of the main passages in the Bible that uh you do well to know as government. The government within the church.

   Verse 4 (II Thessalonians 3:4), Paul begins talking to the Thessalonians, and he says, "And we, Paul and the other ministers, we have confidence in the Lord." In other words, things pertaining to the church, the religion, the truth, things that had to do with their confidence in the Lord, not about their everyday business affairs, but in the Lord, their confidence, "touching those Thessalonians that you both do and will do the things which we command you. And the Lord directs your hearts into the love of God and into the patient waiting for Christ."

   Now he comes to the command. "Now we, Paul and the other ministers, we command you. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Now anytime they ever use authority like that, it's claiming the apostolic authority, it's claiming the backing of Christ. In the name, other words, by the authorities as the representatives of the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul and the ministers were commanding the Thessalonian brethren. "That you withdraw yourself from every brother. That walks disorderly. And not after the tradition. Which he received of us."

   You know we can thank God that chapter doesn't end there. Boy, that would be one mess if that chapter ended there. You know what that would actually do. That would cause all of us individually to decide when we felt somebody was walking disorderly. Well, you know, I saw so and so speeding last week, so I'm just not gonna fellowship with him anymore. I saw somebody last week squeezing the oranges in the grocery and that I'm not gonna a fellowship with him anymore. I saw somebody breaking the traffic law on the way to church, so I'm not gonna a fellowship with him anymore. You know, if God just made that statement and didn't clarify what walking disorderly refers to. We would have one less, wouldn't we? We probably would all have to be out in the woods somewhere with our own Bible and nobody could be with anybody. But thank God he didn't end there. So let's see what walking disorderly is.

   "We command you, Thessalonian church members. That you withdraw yourself." Now if that isn't disfellowship thing, what is it? "Withdraw yourselves from every brother that walks disorderly," alright. "The limit of walking disorderly is not after the tradition. Which he received as the ministers." All right, what tradition? What? Walking disorderly. Well, verse 7, "For yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we behave not ourselves disorderly among you." So he's referring to something specific that he and the others as ministers have set an example in. Because those Thessalonians themselves knew. In this particular area, how they ought to follow the ministers.

   "Neither did we eat any man's bread for naught." In other words, they weren't lazy bums just lying around sponging off members and working not at all. They weren't lazy man, and you know I would have to admit that some of the laziest occupations I've known of in the past have to do with church preachers, where all they have to do is preach on Sunday. They don't counsel anybody. They don't anoint anybody, they don't go visit anybody. And what, what do they do? Well, golf and fish and uh, all kinds of things, but Paul is saying here that he and the ministers in his company did not eat any man's bread for naught. They did not behave themselves disorderly in that way, eating other people's bread for naught, but he said we rock with labor and travail night and day, that you might not be chargeable or that we might not be chargeable to any of you.

   Now he's saying that isn't because that's the way it's required to be by law. That's not the way God ordained that it has to be in the church. "Not because we have not authority. But to make ourselves an example to you, to follow us. Now, even when we were there at Thessalonica, when we were with you Thessalonians, this we commanded you that if any would not work, neither should he eat."

   And that's a Christian principle. That's a law, and that would eliminate a lot of problems governments have where they feed lazy bums that won't even work when there is plenty of work. They won't live off unemployment even when they could work. So it's against God's law for people who aren't willing to work. To eat other people's bread for naught. That if any wouldn't work, neither should he eat, you know, that cure a lot of non-workers. If you just said, well, look, if you want to eat then uh let's see you mow empty lots and clean up Midland, get all the trash up and the garbage and all that and and if you want to eat, we'd be glad to pay you minimum wage, just go out here and do these jobs that need to be done and but to pay people to not work, I mean that is one of the craziest things I ever heard of, to pay people to not work.

   "Even when we were with you, we command you that if any wouldn't work, neither should he eat." Why Paul said "we ministers here that there are some among you Thessalonian Christians walking among you disorderly, that is, they're working not at all, but they're busybodies." Now that's contrary to scripture. That's what it means to walk disorderly. Eat other people's bread for naught working not at all. And spending the time rather than working being busybodies.

   "Now them that are such, we all in the ministers command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ that with quietness they work and eat their own bread." So that's just the contrary, what they were doing. This is what they ought to do. They ought to be still, not be busybodies. They ought to work and they ought to eat their own bread, not eat somebody else's bread for naught, but you bread. That doesn't give an excuse for you Thessalonian Christians to become weary in well doing. So it isn't as if we should get uncharitable or inhospitable.

   Now verse 14 (II Thessalonians 3:14). And notice what this is saying. He's already commanded the brethren what they are to do back up in verse 6. He explains what walking disorderly is and now notice what he says. "If any man obey not our word by this epistle." Now that's somebody else coming under the authority. He's already governed and judged the man who's walking disorderly, working not at all, eating other people's bread for naught, busybodies. But now what about some brother that insists on not withdrawing from a brother who walks disorderly. What if someone said, well, I don't care what old Paul said, he's kind of tough anyway, you know, he was an old Pharisee of Pharisees. He drank women and men before tribunals and had them whipped in prison or he's just hard knows. I don't care if he did say withdraw yourselves from every brother that is willing to work. I'm not gonna do it.

   Alright. Then you got to deal with them. "If any man obey not our word by this epistle, know that man and have no company with him." So there again, if, if another person refuses to administer the disfellowship on someone who is disfellowshipped. If any man won't obey the command of the ministers to withdraw, then not that man and have no company with him.

   Now notice the reason. "That he may be ashamed." Not so he’ll burn in hell. Not so you will be uh given over to Satan. Does this work? Does it work when you do what God said to here? You know, I believe really the worst thing that could happen to me. The thing I fear the most would be to be disfellowshipped from the church. To be where I couldn't come to church. Where I couldn't get the literature, where I couldn't counsel of the ministers. Where I was just disfellowshipped, excommunicated. Now that I'd hate to have that happen. Well, it's for that reason. So one of the reasons for disfellowship is for the shame of the one who's walked unworthily, where he has to be disfellowshipped.

   You know, we have to realize God has to have standards. Beyond which people can't just come and represent his church. God has standards, you know, I don't care what the world does. You know, if the world says, well, all the sinners come in and fellowship with us. If you want to lie and steal and commit adultery and kill and come into our fellowship, that's fine. Come right on. The church is made for sinners, not made for non-sinners. Well, all that's human reasoning. You can't go by that. You either go by the book or you don't. You got to go by what the book says. And the book says if any man doesn't obey the word in the disfellowship then that man's to be noted to have no company with too that he may be ashamed.

   And yet now notice what it tells you how to treat someone whose disfellowshipped, how to treat a lazy bum that won't work and eat somebody's bread for naught and is a busybody. Look how you treat him. How do you treat someone that won't obey the ministerial letter of disfellowship? Well, it says, "Yet count him not as an enemy. But admonish him as a brother."

   Now to me that makes that plan. You withdraw yourself from them in the way of fellowship. Yet you don't count them as an enemy, but you do admonish them as a brother. Now we can't be like the Jews, you know, the Jews, if they saw someone on the street, they'd cross over the street, and you remember the story of the Good Samaritan and how the priest went over on the other side and of course the Levites passed him right on by and the old heathen Samaritan is the one that stooped down to help him and paid his bill till he was healed totally. You know, we can't have someone who's disfellowshipped. You know, what are you gonna do? Shake hands with them, hug their neck, admonish them like a brother, talk with them, but you, you can't company with them. You can't fellowship with them. Because they have to learn. To be ashamed. And that's what he says there.

   All right. Now, what is the other reason for disfellowship thing? I Corinthians chapter 5, I Corinthians 5, and we'll get to the grounds of disfellowship also as we go through these purposes for disfellowship. I Corinthians chapter 5 (I Corinthians 5:1).

   Now Paul says, "It's commonly reported." In other words, it wasn't just something that was known by some of the church people. But it was even known by people in the community, known by just common people out in town. "It's commonly reported. That there's fornication among you Corinthian Christians. And it isn't just fornication. But it's such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles." In other words, even the gentiles who weren't that opposed to fornication, but this type of fornication, they wouldn't even allow it even in their pagan gentile society, incest with his own stepmother. No way, they didn't allow that. Fornication, oh, they didn't mind that. They didn't care about that. In fact, they practiced it in their religion. But this kind of fornication wasn't even as much as name among the gentiles "that one should have his father's wife." In other words, his stepmother. If it had been his own mother to call her his mother, but it says his father's wife, which shows us another wife other than his own mother. So it's an example of incest.

   Now notice what the Corinthians did. "And you Corinthian Christians are puffed up and have not rather mourned." You know that ought to make the church grieve over a person who's been a member and slips up and gets into the sin and does it openly and knowingly and continuously and yet the people got puffed up. "And didn't rather mourn, that he that has done this deed," notice what he says, "might be taken away from among you." See, that's what disfellowshipping is. That he might be taken away from among you.

   You know, you can't just live as you please and stay in the fellowship of God's church. There are certain things you cannot do and be in the fellowship of God's church. There are borders, there are boundary lines, their qualifications. Well, the Corinthians thought they had more love than Paul. They said, well, We can go to this guy and say, look, we can understand that you just made a human mistake. We're all humans. It could happen to any of us. You know, you don't talk that way to someone who's still living in their sin, who's still practicing sin. If this man had committed sin and realized how ridiculous it was and was sorry, then you can go to a man like that and say, look, don't be over swallowed up with over much sorrow. That could happen to anybody. We can all do that. We're all humans. We can't put confidence and flesh. Don't let it affect you overly much. But when a man hadn't even repented when he's still consenting and going on in it and willingly doing it, that's a different thing. But these Corinthians, they didn't get that. They didn't believe it. So they had one of their own members living in incest with his stepmother. How in the world would I ever puff anybody up? Boy, look, we're real Christians. We love that guy in his sin. We can love him in spite of his sin. We can love him no matter what he is. We can love him no matter what he does. You know, we're like a mother who loves her children no matter how bad they are, no matter what they do, no matter, there's no extreme that a mother wouldn't continue to love her kids.

   That's not the time for that kind of an attitude. But those Corinthians were puffed up. They hadn't rather mourned that the man who was guilty of this despicable public shame on the whole church, that the person who'd done that deed might be taken away from a monk.

   Now Paul says, "For I verily as absent in body but present in spirit, have judged already." So Paul's responsibility as the apostle of the Gentiles is obvious here. He intervened and interceded and stepped in and exercised government. He didn't say, well, you Corinthians vote on it. He didn't say, Well, get your, get your elders together, your autonomous churches and vote on it. No, no. The apostle. Interfered. He stuck his nose in and even made a judgment. That's his job. That's the kind of government God had in the church. Paul said, I might not be there in body, but I'm, I'm there in spirit. I've already judged as though I were present. And notice how he says it. "I have already judged." Notice the word "concerning" is italicized. That means that's added by the translators. They want to change what it really says. What Paul said, "I have judged him who has so done this deed."

   Oh wait a minute, you don't judge the man. Oh yes he did. Sure he did. Well, I thought you just judged error. Yeah, you judge a man that's living in error, practicing error, deliberately, knowingly going on in error. He hadn't judged himself. So Paul said, I have judged him. "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. When you are gathered together," in other words, when you get together in the church assembly "in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh. That the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

   Now a lot of people read that and start trying to interpret it and explain it before they read the whole story. What does that mean "that the Spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus?" Well, let's see, I guess he's gonna have his chance after the millennium. Uh uh. Well, I guess that means uh he'll just have to wait in the millennium to gain his forgiveness, no. What happened to the man? Well, he realized his lesson and was ashamed and sorry and repented and was welcomed back into the church. When was the spirit saved? Well, whenever he died or whenever, you know, in his lifetime. The Spirit was saved in his day of salvation. In his day, the Lord Jesus Christ.

   In what way was he delivered to Satan? Well, what does it say when you excommunicate someone from the fellowship of God's faith? When you see someone who persists in living by the flesh, who insists on following his fleshly cravings, who insists on practicing whatever his flesh wants to do, no matter if it's incest. And you put that person out of the church and say, look, you want to live by the flesh, have at it. Just go ahead. Nobody can stop you. Nobody will try to keep you on it. And that's what you're doing when you put the person out of the fellowship of the church. You're turning them over to go ahead and pursue whatever they're doing that's keeping them out of the church. But does that mean that the minister has the power to sentence them to ever burning lake of fire? Well, that isn't any more true than anything. So I'll show you here in a minute.

   OK. This Corinthian fornicator or incest was delivered over to Satan. So you can't interpret that some other way. What happened to this man? Well, he got fed up with living by the flesh. He got sick and tired of Satan tempting him to live in incest with his own stepmother. He got ashamed. He got embarrassed. He finally realized how stupid he was to put sex to such a great giant thing. And those so-called brethren who showed this love and fellowship who were puffed up in the way they treated him, they weren't the ones that really showed the love for him. They were the ones that actually hurt him. They are the ones that actually shamed him. They may have him go through a lot more shame. If they do then what God said what would happen.

   You know I've seen that so many times when someone is disfellowshipped, if everybody obeyed what God's word says, it make it a lot easier on that guy that disfellowshipped. He'd be back a lot quicker. He learned his lesson so much faster, but there are always those people that want to think they've got more love than everybody else, and they want to show this disfellowshipped brother that boy they've got more love than all those other brothers. You're the worst enemy has when you do that. You're gonna cause more shame than he'd have to have if you do, do what God says.

   Well, Paul delivered this one on the Satan for the destruction of the flesh. Not for burning up in hell, not to be wiped out and then hope maybe have his spirit saved in some other day. No, no.

   Now Paul says, "Your glorying. Now look what these Christians somehow with their human reasoning were able to do. They were able to get puffed up when a man should have been taken away from among them. They were able to glory when they should have been ashamed. Your glorying is not good."

   You can't glory in the love you can have for a sinner. You can't glory in the love you can have for a man in his sin while he is still practicing it, willingly, knowingly, deliberately going on in it. "Your glory is not good. Don't you know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?" That's the other reason for disfellowship, not just to teach the one who is disfellowshipped to be ashamed. To be sorrowful. To repent and learn his lesson, but also to keeps the leaven out of the lump. To keep the whole loaf, which is always the church from way back in Moses' day, a loaf of bread, the two loaves of Pentecost. The church is like bread. So he says "the little one leavens the whole lump purge out."

   That's what you do when you disfellowship. That's what you do when you excommunicate. You purge out the old leaven of incest, the old leaven of malice and wickedness, the old one is living by the flesh, the old leaven of division and this divisiveness and independent stubborn, hard-headed rebellious purge out all that old leaven that you may be a new lump even as you are unleavened or even Christ our Passover sacrificed for us. But let's just not be keeping a feast with the physical tokens only putting leaven out, but let's be sure we keep out the leaven of malice and wickedness.

   Now notice verse 9 (I Corinthians 5:9), "I wrote them to you in an epistle." Which you don't even have a record of, "not to company with fornicators." Now what does it do to a Christian if he companies with fornicators? Say you run around with a guy that's always flirting with the other women. He's married, he's got children, you run around with him, you shouldn't do it. Shouldn't know what's it gonna do to you? Oh, you're strong. You're, you're a Christian. You have God's power. It's gonna affect you. Well, it's going to affect you. People are gonna say, you know, Bill Smith may be a pillar in that Baptist church, and I know he keeps running around with that guy that everybody knows that Lewis runs with everybody's wife runs around with other women, and Paul says. He wrote to the Corinthian Christians, not to company with fornicators.

   Now you know what they did, what everybody does? Humans just go overboard one way or the other. Everybody then said, uh oh, well, let's see now. Seemed to me old Betty Smith years ago committed fornication, I guess can company with her, so they got to be technical and they were digging about everybody to see about everybody's past, about everybody's deeds. So look what happened. After Paul wrote this letter. Paul has to write again and explain that "look, wait a minute now don't carry that to the extreme. I didn't mean altogether with the fornicators of this world. I didn't mean you couldn't have business dealing with them. I didn't mean you couldn't live next door to them. I didn't mean you couldn't loan him your plow on your horse, not all together with the fornicators of this world. Not altogether with the covetous of this world, not altogether, not to keep company with extortioners or idolaters, for then must you go out of the world."

   Well if you couldn't have any kind of dealings at all with anybody that was a fornicator or covetous or extortion or idolatry. You know, how could you keep company with anybody? Paul said you'd have to go out of the world. So now he straightens it up and gets them back in the middle of the road and says, "Now I have written to you not to keep company." In other words, disfellowship excommunicate, "not to keep company. If any man that's called a brother be a fornicator."

   Now it doesn't say if someone who's called a brother gets sent to the time when he's weak and slips up and commits fornication, uh, then you've got to disfellowship him or excommunicating. But the term here is someone who is not someone who committed one act of covetousness or one act of railing or one act of slipped up and got drunk one time, or someone that at one time in one time committed extortion, that isn't what it says. That's not the example of this man that he's talking about. This man was living in it at the time. "If any man who's called a brother, be." Probably why he’s called a brother. He is living in fornication. Living in idolatry, living in drunkenness, living in extortion.

   So it doesn't mean someone, if let's say someone in the church, and we used to misunderstand this because we got it from other churches too and in their interpretation, but you know there are churches if one of the young people gets caught at the time of weakness and gets tempted and commits fornication, then that person would be suspended from church and the preacher will get up there and announce to the whole church. "Betty Brown committed fornication. We had to put her out of the church." Horrors, you know, I'm glad God doesn't have that in the Bible. Oh, I'm glad that in scripture. That we have to all have everybody's misdeeds say, well, we had disfellowship old Bill Smith last week because he got drunk. We had to disfellowship Betty Brown last week because we caught her down there at the Dillard’s coveting. We had to disfellowship. That'd be horrible wouldn't it? That'd be terrible. Then nobody would be a church next Sabbath. So that isn't what God says.

   God says "if any man that's called a brother. Habitually practices." As it always says in the other uh examples in Galatians and other scriptures, "if any man that called a brother, be a fornicator," but you want to notice the ground for which someone could be disfellowshipped here morally. A railer. You can be disfellowshipped. If you try to claim you're a brother living in the church at the same time, you're railing, railing, always railing, always railing. What does that mean? Bad mouth. Spreading gossip and slander continually. Running down deacons, elders, ministers, deaconesses, other church members. You cannot stay in God's church and be a railer. Now you might get provoked at one time and rail and get corrected and learn your lesson and you may have to learn it again and again, but if you practice continually living the way of being a railer. You'll have to be disfellowshipped. You'll have to be excommunicated. You can't represent God's church and God's people and live that way.

   So anyone who's called a brother doesn't make any difference who you are. Me, you, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, deacons, elders, deaconesses, lay members, and God, God is no respecter person. Wrong is wrong, sin is sin. Grounds for excommunication are all the same. So "if any man who's called a brother, be covetous. If any man who's called a brother be an idolater." What does that mean? That doesn't mean you have to have a statue of Buddha in your house and you get out on your knees and light incense to him and burn candles to him. You can be an idolater and not do that, "a railer or a drunkard or an extortioner. With such a one know not to eat."

   Now notice, notice that very plainly. He gets specific. What does it mean to take away from among? What does it mean to not keep company with? What does it mean to disfellowship excommunicate? It means not to eat with them. Means not to fellowship with them. It means not to treat them like an enemy. It means to admonish him like a brother. So God is specific. He draws the lines plain "with such a one no not to eat. So we don't judge those without God will judge them."

   Now notice verse 13 (I Corinthians 5:13). "But them that are without God judges, therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." So that was Paul's command. That was Paul's government. That was his apostolic authority. "Put away from among yourselves, that wicked person." And that had to be done and that was done. Now everybody didn't go along with church government, so they hindered the process of things working out.

   So there are two purposes to treat the person guilty, to be ashamed, so he'll repent and be ashamed and learn his lesson, but it's also to protect the rest of the loaf, to keep it from getting leavened.

   Now let's take a couple of other examples. Titus chapter 3. So a man can either walk disorderly or he can be guilty of specific sins. Titus chapter 3. Well, let's start out with verse 9 and kind of get a story flow (Titus 3:9). "Avoid foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings about the law for their own unprofitable and vain." So if someone's always wanting to come up with foolish questions or genealogies or striving about the law, there isn't gonna work to try to. Argue with them, to try to deal with them, avoid them, he says.

   "A man that is a heretic after the 1st and 2nd admonition. Reject." Now notice that what it says. Reject, reject from what? Reject where? How? Well, "a man who is an heretic." What's a heretic? You ever look up the word heretic? Well, it means someone who promotes a sect. The division, the hard-headed, stubborn, opinionated person that won't change his views when they are shown to be contrary to scripture. Someone who is not one with everybody else, someone who has got his own pet doctrine, his own pet ideas, not just someone that has speculations or someone that wants to think beyond what's written. That's not the case. But here is a man who is a heretic. If you leave him in the loaf, he's gonna split off a part of the loaf. He's going to cause divisiveness, he's going to cause sects, he's going to cause divisionism. So "any man who's a heretic. After the 1st and 2nd admonition, you have to reject them. Knowing that he that is such is subverted. And sin being condemned himself."

   A person like that isn't going to be allowed in the church. He isn't coming to church to be fed and to be overcoming and taught and fellowshipping with each other, you know, for admonishing each other and causing each other to grow. That's not his reason for being there at all. This kind of a person who is always trying to promote opinions and differences and sectarianism is subverted. And these very reasons and motives condemn himself.

   Now, in the same way back in Romans chapter 16. Romans 16. Verse 17. Romans 16:17. "Now I beseech you brethren. Mark them, which caused division and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you've learned and avoid them," alright. Here Paul is beseeching Roman Christians as brothers. "Mark them." Now the Greek word here is Skopeo, S K O P E O, where we get our English word, scope, telescope, microscope. Same word. What is, what is the microscope? What is the telescope? Well, you know, you magnify something to look a lot closer. You scrutinize very detailed. How is this word Skopeo used in the Greek language? What if you got a field out here that's got a lot of uh where they dig up limestone and they've got these pits, you know, and you want to warn people that that field is dangerous because here you've got these lime holes that somebody might just fall into and then they'll be hopeless to get out. Well you Skopeo that field, you mark that field.

   Now the word Skopeo has quite a broad meaning. It can also mean, mark somebody that's a good example. Mark a guy that's real strong spiritually. Mark a woman that's a real Proverbs 31 woman. Mark someone that's setting a good example to follow. So the word can mean either a good marking or a bad marking. But without any question, it does have to do like telescope or microscope. It has to do with a caution or a warning about a danger. As if you mark a field. It's a dangerous field. Alright, "mark them, which caused divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you've learned." And there again the word doctrine is the word teaching. Contrary to the teaching, which you've learned "and now people would argue about the word mark. He tells you what it means, avoid them."

   No, it, it doesn't say mark those that cause division. That means when you come to church, kind of keep an eye on them all the time. If you see them talking with a bunch, you go over, uh, if you see them talking with another bunch, you go over there and you just kind of keep tabs on them and keep up with them and keep close by them, and that isn't what it means. Look at what it says. Avoid them. Doesn’t say keep up with them. Go stand by them, go stand with them and listen to them. That isn't what mark means. It means avoid them. It's disfellowshipping, but it's more than disfellowshipping. It's a stronger word than that. This person isn't just noted like the one in II Thessalonians. This person is marked. As a divisive person causing systems and sects and divisions contrary to the teachings.

   Then he goes on to say, "For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly and by good word and fair speeches, deceive the hearts of the simple." Now look at the reason God gives for that. You think no one is sharp enough that by good words and fair speeches, they can deceive you? Oh yes, they can, oh yes they can. I remember a man up in Oregon. I could call his name. There have been people who tried to take away the church up there because they didn't like some of the things that Mr. Armstrong believed as far as Pentecost and as far as uh tithing and as far as church government and whether people could live in the church and live in adultery and so since more of them were in disagreement then in agreement, they just figured if the majority is against the man, then they could take over the building cause they're the majority. But the law's kind of funny because it hinges on when you found that church and not by number. So there's no way they could get that church.

   Well, then this man felt like he was the Moses between uh God's church and that bunch that went out. I warned him, I talked to him, I said that's not what the Bible says. Well, he just felt like he could get through to them. He felt like he could talk with them. He felt like he was strong enough, they couldn't delude him or deceive him and of course, I don't need to tell you what happened. He ends up with them. And that's what God warns here. Notice God's warning. If someone isn't marked when they cause this kind of trouble, if you don't avoid someone like that, then they "by good words and fair speeches. can deceive the hearts of the simple." That's why God tells you back in Matthew, if someone says "low here is Christ or low there," he says, don't even go out to look. Don't even go out. Your proof isn't whether you go out and see that he is really there. But that's what a lot of people don't realize. So very plainly when someone is marked. When you're to avoid them, it's to protect you from being deceived by good words and fair speeches.

   Now notice an example uh back in Matthew. This time chapter 18, Matthew 18. And here again, you learn a lesson on what it means to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, not to just go off hasty with what you think something says. I've seen a lot of trouble over misreading this scripture. Matthew 18:15. "Moreover, If your brothers shall trespass." Now a lot of other translations say that "against you" shouldn't be there, that it's not in most of the older manuscripts. "If your brother shall trespass. Go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he shall hear you, you've gained your brother. But if he'll not hear you then take with you one or two more that in the mouth of two or three witnesses," you know, I thought the Old Testament laws were not in effect here. Why does Jesus say you still have to follow that guideline, "the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses." That's an Old Testament law that goes way back to Moses' time. And yet Jesus in his teaching in the New Testament tells you to do it.

   So "if he doesn't hear you, then you take with you one or two more that in the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word may be established." OK, now you've got 2 or 3 there trying to talk to him "and if he shall neglect to hear them." Now, you know, here's a good example. Some people have you believe that. The church is just the individuals. You know, the church isn't an organization. The church isn't an organized body. The church is just all individuals. Well, what about this? If one man goes to a brother, that's the church then. If one man goes to a brother and he won't listen and he takes 2 or 3 others, surely that's the church then, but that is what it says here. The church mean all members? Or does the church in some cases just mean the leaders? Well, read and see.

   "If one brother goes to the brother, then one brother takes one or two other brothers with him, then notice if he shall neglect to hear them. Tell it unto the church." But what does that mean? If I go and try to tell a brother and he won't listen, and I take one or two others and try to tell him and he won't listen, then I come next Sabbath and come tell all of you. No, no, no. No, that isn’t want it mean. That's congregational form of government. That's not what God says. "If he shall neglect to hear 2 or 3 brothers, tell it to the church." In other words, then you take it to the leadership, then you take it to the church ministry, "but if he neglects to hear the church. Let him be unto you as an heathen man and the publican."

   Be careful how you read it. What does that mean? "If someone neglects to hear the church," Well, we read back in Paul's letters where he said, "if some man doesn't obey our word by this epistle note that man." Now he says if any man won't hear the church. What does he tell you to do? Well, just treat him like anybody else that doesn't hear the church. Then they treat him like an enemy, Paul said not to. You admonish him like a brother, Paul said so. You don't eat with him. You don't fellowship with him. "If he neglects to hear the church, then you just treat him like anybody else that neglects to hear the church." He's probably not converted anyway if he doesn't even know the church is part in his life. So if the next neglect here the church, let him be counted just like any tax collector, just like any other gentile that doesn't believe in God's way.

   Now notice the paragraph in over "verily, truly amen. I say to you whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven." Now notice it gets into the binding and loosing. If a brother goes to a brother and then a brother takes one or two other brothers and then it's brought to the church, then it has to do with the church binding and loosing. "If two of you" talking to the leadership of the church, "agree on earth." This is all pertaining to a brother trespassing against a brother. "If two of you as the ministers agree on earth is touching the things that are in this context of this paragraph, then they can ask and it will be done for them and my Father, where two or three are gathered in my name, I'll be there to inspire and uh make the decision through them and direct them and teach them."

   Now always take that in the context of that paragraph. But the key word is back up in verse 15. "If your brother trespassed." That’s not the word "if a brother sin." You know, your brother might sin, it's none of your business. Your brother might sin, and it isn't your job. This doesn't say if you think your brother doesn't keep the Sabbath where you think you ought to get all over him about it. And then if he won't listen, tell everybody else about how he keeps the Sabbath and then gang up on him. That isn’t what this teaches. I've seen that done hundreds of times though doesn't work, never works because it isn’t what it says.

   What is a trespass? When you look up the word trespass. It means the brother hasn't lived up to the Christian standard towards you. Maybe he cheated you, maybe he borrowed something and broke it and didn't make it good. Maybe he bums off of you, maybe he takes advantage of you. Maybe he doesn't earn his wage off you because you are a church member, a brother. It's a brother trespassing against another brother. This is not telling us that we ought to all be policemen in each other's lives, telling each other how to keep the Sabbath, telling each other about how to fast and when to fast, and how often to fast, and how to read and when to read and how much to read, and you better keep the word trespass where it belongs here. That's what it's all about.

   But you do have a duty. If you feel like your brother has stepped on your Christian toes, you've got to go and talk with him about it. You can't come to the altar and have on against the brother and expect God to just forgive you all of your trespasses. If you don't forgive others their trespasses, and that's the same word in the Lord's prayer. If your brother trespasses against you, you've got a duty to go talk with him. And then maybe he'll just get angry and won't listen. Then you'll take one or two others that try to get this brother to realize he's not as honest as he should be, that he's not uh just and fair, that he's not as unprejudiced, that he's not discriminatory against other people. So it all comes down to though if brothers have gone and he still won't listen. Then what's your attitude towards someone who won't hear the church? Well, treat them like anybody else who won't hear the church, like anybody else that's not converted, like anybody else that's the heathen or publican and tax collectors. And that's the example that uh the 11th edition was talking about when it comes to excommunication. That's the teaching of Christ about someone that won't hear the church. Same thing as Paul said in Thessalonian.

   Now you might notice while we're here in Matthew, Matthew chapter 10. Verse 28. And I hate to skip into the context like this, but uh for the sake of time, we can't cover the context. But in verse 26 (Matthew 10:26-28), he says, "you don't need to be afraid. There's nothing covered. It's not going to be revealed." Now you got to take that in the context. God doesn't mean he's going to tell everybody in the beginning of the kingdom all your mistakes, all of your sins, so we all start out knowing everybody else's sins. God's forgotten them. They're not remembered, they're buried. So what is he talking about? "Don't fear anything that's covered. It's gonna be revealed. What I tell you in darkness, speak in light." And finally in verse 28, he says, "fear not them which kill the body. But are not able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him, God, who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

   Now you know that very plainly tells me that no man can do any more than snuff out your life. Nobody can sentence me to the lake of fire accept God. I can't sentence you to the lake of fire. No way on earth I can do that. I can disfellowship you from the church, if God is behind it, if God inspires it and causes it to be known that it's something that has to be done. But you know, beyond that, I can't confiscate your property. I can't confine you to the Odessa jail. I can't call legal authorities out and have them whip you. I can't call legal authorities and have them shoot you. All I can do is disfellowship you. That's all the church authority is. That's all as far as it goes. But it is there, it's biblical. It's a Christian doctrine. It's a Christian teaching. I can't sentence you to the hellfire. Only God can do that. Only God can do that, no man can.

   Now I notice in Philippians, the first chapter. Philippians chapter one. Verse 5, Philippians 1 and verse 5. Paul says in verse 4 (Philippians 1:4-5), "Always in every prayer of mine for you all making requests with joy for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now." Now you notice if you support the work of getting the gospel out, that's fellowshipping. That's part of fellowshipping. Fellowshipping doesn't just have to come to church on Saturday. If you support financially someone, you're fellowshipping with them. So it doesn't just have to do with being in their company. It doesn't just have to do with being in their communion. It also has to do with supporting them financially and here is the proof of that. Paul always thanked God for these Philippians because they were the most vigorous church to support him financially. And in every prayer of his, he remembered their fellowshipping in the sense of supporting him and giving money when he was at Thessalonica, supporting him financially "for your fellowship in the gospel."

   So if you want to know what fellowship is, you know, you better look up the word fellowship. Because it means a lot more than just being in somebody's presence. It doesn't just mean that only. In fact, you might notice II Corinthians chapter 8 in verse 4. II Corinthians 8. Now Paul says, "Why bear record" verse 3 (II Corinthians 8:3-4), "beyond power, you Corinthians were willing of yourselves, praying that us ministers with much entreaty that we would receive the gift. And take on us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints." In other words, you Corinthians, even in your poverty, wanted to help others that were in need. Why even beyond your power, you were wanting to help give to other people in need. Why with much entreaty, you prayed to us that we would receive the gift, the fellowshipping of the ministering to the saint. There again it shows if you financially support the needy to help them, that's a fellowship.

   Now, you know, there are other places that word fellowship is used and you need to realize what all it involves.

   Now one last picture in I Timothy, the first chapter shows you. As we read in the 11th edition, even when someone is turned over to Satan. It's a corrective means. It's not a lake of fire commitment. It's not a destructive judgment, it's a corrective judgment. The government is to finalize someone in a lake of fire, and yet I know some people have been led to believe that when Mr. Herbert Armstrong or when I or anybody else. Disfellowship someone, send them a letter of disfellowship that we are actually turning them over to Satan, that we are actually committing them to the lake of fire. You know, I've got a letter I could take out of my satchel and read to you. Uh, one young couple that I had to send a letter of disfellowship, and they said, well, we are sure sorry you feel like we are lost. I don't feel like you're lost. You're out of the church, your disfellowshipped. You got a lesson to learned. But it's not my job to say, You are lost. I find your name and address and send you a letter and I can say you are lost. That's ridiculous. I can't anymore do that. That's not my job. God does that. Only God can finally judge somebody. But you know they want to make it sound a lot worse than it is when somebody's disfellowshipped. We've read today what it means. It does not mean a man has the power to sentence them to the lake of fire to destroy their spirit, so somehow they can have their spirits saved in the day of the Lord. That's ridiculous.

   Notice I Timothy, the first chapter (I Timothy 1:18). "This charge, I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies that went before on you. That you by them might war good warfare holding faith and a good conscience. Which some having put away concerning faith, have made shipwrecks." So there were some of the leaders, unlike Timothy, who didn't hold the faith and a good conscience. And they ended up in a shipwreck, spiritually, "of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander. Whom I have delivered into Satan" so they can burn forever and ever, no, no. No, "whom I have committed under Satan." So that they can be burned up, no. "Whom I have committed into Satan because they're lost," no, that isn’t what that says. Paul put these men out of the ministry, put them out of the church. Delivered them onto Satan by putting them out of the church since they wanted to live for material things. They wanted to live to have a following after themselves, so they were put out of the church so they could go on and pursue what they wanted. "That they may learn not to blaspheme."

   So they learn something, so they can learn to be ashamed. What they've done is wrong, you can't just live any way you please and still be in the fellowship of God's church. So Paul's judgment on them was corrective. It was for profit, it was for their welfare "that they might learn not to blaspheme," that people could be ashamed that they would repent and then learn their lesson and be brought back into the church, so Satan wouldn't keep control of them until he railroaded them into the lake of fire.

   Well, that's the doctrine of disfellowship according to the Bible. Not according to what you might think, feel, whether you like it or don't like it, whether you emotionally, sentimentally, like the sound of it, like to practice it, all that's neither here nor there. I mean, is it biblical? Absolutely. Is it the doctrine, the church is practiced all the way, yeah, Old Testament, New Testament, all the churches since the New Testament except down in our day when people have gotten all watered down and churches don't have their power anymore.

   You know, I heard an interesting statistic on the radio on the way down here. 94% of all Americans believe in a in a God, a great spirit. Only 71% of them. Believe in a life hereafter. Only 44% of them believe the churches are doing what God showed the churches did in the New Testament day. They don't like the way the churches don't go by the scripture. They breathe, they water everything down. They justify and rationalize and explain away and that's one thing they've done. Now I was in the Baptist Church 21 years. I never saw anybody disfellowship from the Baptist Church, not any doctrine they practiced. At least not the First Baptist church in Kilgore. Well, you know, that's kind of unbiblical. And it offended me. I'll tell you, I had a Sunday school teacher and I just, boy, I thought he was really a really a good Christian. I listened to him. I learned a lot from him. I appreciated him until I found out as I got a little older that he was a lying car salesman, that he'd run back a speedometer, that he was crooked as a snake and dealing, and I, you know, I just, I wondered how in the world he could be a Sunday school teacher in the Baptist church. If he could tell us all those things we're glad to hear because they came out of the Bible. Yet he didn't live up to them himself at all.

   Well, disfellowship is a Bible doctrine and God's church practices and believes it, and you know if you don't you just disagree with the Bible. So we will continue to practice that doctrine whether it might seem good to you or might see love to you or might seem harsh to you or you know it might split asunder closest friends but. That's too bad. That's bad. You know that's happened to me in the past. Some of the best friends I've had ended up being disfellowshipped. I spent 6 weeks with one man, traveled all over Europe and all over Palestine, all over Egypt, and I couldn't eat with him, couldn't fellowship with him, couldn't violate God's word. I mean, it has to come down to that, but you just say, well, look. What does the Bible say? That's what you have to go by. Don't let yourself get carried away with emotion and human reasoning and justification and rationalization. You got to live by every word of God. I hope that's what we're all going to do.